Interview with Irma Camarillo-Napierkowski

Interview with Irma Camarillo-Napierkowski

Alonso, Erika

Alonso, Erika

2022

Bowaniya, Salima, translator

© 2022 Erika Alonso

Youtube: Excerpts from Irma Camarillo-Napierkowski's oral history

mp3

English

Sound

01:39:45

48 kHz

Erika Alonso: Can tell me your full name and when and where you were born?

Irma Camarillo: My name is Irma Napierkowski, it is actually Irma Camarillo-Napierkowski. My maiden name is Camarillo. That's my maiden name.

Erika Alonso: Where were you born?

Irma Camarillo: I was born in Matamoros, Mexico.

Erika Alonso: When did you move to Houston?

Irma Camarillo: I was eight years old when we moved to Houston.

Erika Alonso: And that was from...

Irma Camarillo: Well, let's see, from Monterrey to Matamoros and then we moved to Houston.

Erika Alonso: Why did you move to Houston?

Irma Camarillo: Originally we moved to Houston… First of all, my dad's from here. He's from Laredo, Texas.

He met my mother and they were boyfriend and girlfriend for about seven years. On the seventh year, they got engaged and they got married. My mother was an only child with her mother, so when they got married it was with the understanding that [my mother] would stay in Mexico. She didn't wanna come over here because she couldn't speak the language.

Erika Alonso: Mm-hmm.

Irma Camarillo: So she went ahead and stayed over there until she had four kids over there [in Mexico].

Okay. Then my grandmother died (her mother). And then [my mother] went to Monterrey because she had a little baby that was ill. Monterrey was a bigger city and they had a lot of doctors, and they had better medical profession people. So she took the baby over there to see what they could do for the baby. They couldn't…they went ahead and operated, but it didn't do any good at all. So in the meantime, we were living with my father's family in Monterrey.

My father was here [in the United States]. So, my [paternal] grandfather kept telling my mother that now that her mother was gone, she had to come and live with her husband here in Houston. And also in the meantime, there was a man that was a friend of my dad's, that was a doctor at the Children's Hospital. Texas Children's Hospital. 

It was the beginning of the hospital, and [my dad’s friend] was an intern. He was being a doctor there. [My dad’s friend] went to Mexico to visit his family (his family was from there). 

So he told my dad, “Why don't you go to Houston? We have a lot of facilities. As matter of fact, the place that I'm working in, that's what it does—it takes care of children that have problems.”

So my dad went and talked to my mom and convinced her. And then in the meantime, my dad over here [in the United States], he was working for...I forgot the name of it, but it's still in operation. So he [my father] went and talked to his boss, and then to the general manager. And they, he [my father] had been with him now like for five or six years, so [his boss] went ahead and gave [my father] the paper that they needed to say that he was employed and all that. Because if we came over here, that would be six—six children, because Yolanda was born here.

But my mother took her back to Mexico. My mother was still like, “I don't know if I want to go live over there.” My little sister, that was ill, was born in Brownsville. And anyway—so then Yolanda was born here [in the United States], so she went back to Mexico, because my mother was still with, “I can't speak the language. I don't want to be there.”

So anyway, she, my dad went and got, I think it was D… (Chevrolet). It was with a "D”, I know that. Anyway, my dad says the man [his boss] gave him the signature. And my dad went with my mom to the…what do you call 'em…the people that do all the paperwork.

Erika Alonso: immigration?

Irma Camarillo: Immigration. Immigration. My dad went with my mom and they got all their, got their things ready, but Okay. Yolanda was born here with Lucita. They were born in the United States.

But the other—all of the rest of us was four of us. We were born in Mexico. So, because my dad was from here, they allowed my two youngest sisters—which was Mela and Dolores; Mela was three and Dolores was two—to be citizens under my dad.

Erika Alonso: Okay. So real quick, your father is an American citizen, born in…

Irma Camarillo: Laredo, Texas. In Laredo.

Erika Alonso: And your mother was not an American citizen?

Irma Camarillo: No, she was from Monterrey, Mexico. 

See, my grandfather came over here before, before the…

Yolanda Camarillo: depression.

Irma Camarillo: The Depression. Thank you. So my dad was born in 1927 [in the United States], so my grandfather came over here before the Depression.

My grandfather could speak three languages. He could speak in English, French, and Spanish fluently. And if you looked at him, he looked American. Light-skinned with blondish hair and you know, light eyes and all this stuff. So anyway, he came over here and he was working over in…he was—as a matter of fact, I looked him up—and he was living in Laredo. That's where my dad was born and his other brother, Antonio. They were both born in Laredo. 

Then, from there, [my grandfather] went to Corpus Christi. And in Corpus Christi, he was working there, and then the Depression hit. And when the Depression hit, he couldn't, he didn't want to live here anymore because everything was real rough and all that.

So he [my grandfather] went back to Mexico and became a general manager of Westinghouse products. Or he ran Westinghouse over there in Monterrey. He lived well over there. But my dad…the best I can tell you about my dad was he was his own person.

He [my dad] didn't want—cuz his dad over there is like a patriarch. At that time, my grandfather would decide what his children were gonna do. My [grandfather], he was a Mason, a third-degree Mason. So he, and each of his sons—but not my dad. He [my dad] wouldn't do what he was supposed to, so he left, he came over here and became a body man, you know, to do the cars that are messed up, that were wrecked. Yes, he [my dad] became that. He was excellent at it. So he would not be under [control] like that. My mother knew how he was because she knew what kind of man she married, but she told him, “I'll marry you, but I'm not going over there [the United States]. And it was agreeable, that was okay with him.

But my grandfather, he was hoping that because of the family [staying in Mexico] that [my dad] would come [back to Mexico], but no. My dad stayed over here [in the United States]. 

So anyway, because of that, it created like a rift between—to me, I think, my opinion—like I always tell my mother, I was born in Matamoras. And I said, “Mom, what was the thing for…why couldn't you just cross over the bridge and have me right at the border of the bridge and I would've been a U.S. citizen?” Mela, myself, and Joe, which were the oldest. My mother said, "I didn't know that. You think I'm gonna go somewhere where I don't know the language? I always wanted to feel comfortable, and I was having a baby."

Okay, but because my dad was a citizen and he came back when he was 14 over here, he got whatever he was supposed to go to school, private school, whatever. He got that money and came over here. But he always says that he came here with 75 cents. And by the time he left, the Lord took him home, every Christmas he would tell us, he came, he, at the end, he came here with 50 cents. So because my dad was citizen, they let Mela and Dolores become citizens through my dad. Myself and my brother, they gave us a green card, and my mother. So we had to become citizens on our own.

Okay. And then—which we did—but both my little sisters, which at the time were the youngest— Yolanda was the youngest—Beatrice and Yolanda—but they were born here. So anyway, when we came over here, that's how we came; we had to become citizens on our own.

Later on, when I started reading things, I told my mother, “according to this, I could have become a citizen. We could have been citizens, mom, because father was a citizen.” But mom said, because he went back to Mexico and they came back when he was 14, that time kept him, kept us [from citizenship], you know, instead of if he had stayed here or stayed here longer.

Erika Alonso: Got it.

Irma Camarillo: But as soon as he was like two or three, they [my grandparents] took him back [to Mexico]. So that's why we couldn't be citizens. So then we became citizens later on.

Erika Alonso: Yeah. Because you were born in

Irma Camarillo: Matamoras.

Erika Alonso: Exactly.

Irma Camarillo: Which is, I mean, have you ever been to Matamoros?

Erika Alonso: I don't think I have.

Irma Camarillo: Okay. It's like, you know where [my son] Steven lived on this side here?

Erika Alonso: Mm-hmm.

Irma Camarillo: It's like that far [about ½ mile] from Brownsville. All my mother had to do was walk over just a little bit.

Erika Alonso: Mm-hmm.

Irma Camarillo: And all she had to do was cross over the bridge and have me there, and my brother. But my mother—because she was an only child—she was…everything had to be so [to her liking]—that's how she was brought up. Whatever she wanted, she got, and whatever she decided was how it was. And my dad kind of followed her in those footsteps. She says, “I'll marry you, but with the understanding that I'll stay here with my mom”, you know, and then, then when she left, and because my father's father kept pressing her since my dad was not gonna, he was, he kept hoping that my dad would fall in with a routine.

But he wouldn't, not my dad. You know, he stayed over here [in the United States], which to me now that I'm older, I see that was a blessing. But at the time, when I was eight and I came over here, I was like, “why did my dad do this?” We were a lot better off over there to me. Like, you see all these poor people in Mexico, and you hear about it, and you see it on TV? That was not how I was being raised. We were well off, you know, of course, in Matamoros they don't have much, but we were, well, I mean the houses at that time, okay, I'm sure it’s changed, whatever. But then we went to Monterrey and everything was beautiful, you know. And I was like, “Why will we come over here [to the United States]?”

And I could never understand it until I got older. Because when we came over here, we were living first in the Second Ward, which is by City Gas. The people there were real nice. I mean, they were very nice people. And they came over and helped my mother and of course my little sister that was sick.

They would always, you know, they made themselves…at that time, the neighborhoods were really close. They made themselves and they knew that my mother didn't speak English. Because when we moved to that house, there was a house that was being rented by three men: my dad and two of his friends. Okay.

So they knew it was a house of men and then my mother and we show up. And you know, you know how kids are, they don't stay inside. We were playing outside and everything. So then they [the neighbors] came over and introduced themselves and they found out that my dad took over the house and his friends—they were bachelors—they moved out.

So then that's how we got into that neighborhood. And it was a real nice neighborhood. Okay. How do I put it…but their lives were real simple and I wasn't used to that. I was used to more, like when I was in Monterrey, we would have certain rituals that we would do. Like in the mornings we would have breakfast and then we go out and play. We’d come back. My grandfather would go to work, he'd come in the middle of the day and have lunch and then he'd go again. Like, but when he had lunch, he would take a shower and change his clothes cuz he was real hot. And then he would go out and then he'd come back. And us kids, we’d eat early. But before we ate around five o'clock, we had like tea, but it was like chocolate with those Mexican breads. The Pan de dulce. So it was a lotnlike that. And my mother had help with all of us, so my mother never really learned how to cook or anything like that, because she always had help. But when we came over here [to the United States], she had to learn to cook and all that.

She would make the bread, the tortillas, and they would come all lopsided and stuff. But she would cook 'em good so they wouldn't be raw. So we would…she would hold them up and say, “What does that look like?” And we would tell her what the tortilla looked like. Like “it looks like this, it looks like that,” you know?

So I had to learn a whole new life for me. I was eight. And then I was in the third grade in Monterrey. When I came over here [to the United States], they put me back in the first grade.

Erika Alonso: What, what was the reason?

Irma Camarillo: I didn't know any English.

Erika Alonso: You didn't know any English before you came?

Irma Camarillo: None at all.

All I knew was my father would say, “Come on, come on”. And, you know, things like that. And when he said, “Come on,” that sounded to me like jamón, which is ham in Spanish! But my father would not really talk English to us, just Spanish. So when I came over here, the first thing that our neighbors told my mother was to only speak to us in English, not to speak to us in Spanish, so that we would not be handicapped when we went to school. Like their kids were handicapped, because they were older generation. So they all spoke Spanish to their kids through the kids would only go up to the eighth grade because they didn't know any…their English was not fluent. So they gave them that advice: speak always English to your children.

Even if you don't know how to speak it, let them speak English among themselves, and your husband speaks English, let him speak English to them and you don't speak Spanish to them, you know? So my mother did that. They did that. 

But so, okay. But that's another story. 

But anyway, when we came here, all we could speak me, all I could speak was Spanish—and my brother too. And the little ones [siblings], they were little, like Delores was four and Mela was five. Mela went to the, I think she was four when she came, but by the time she turned five, she went to kindergarten. And you know, we, we picked up the language real fast. I was in the first grade, I was in the third in Mexico, but in the first here. I was eight, but I was a big eight.

I have always been like…see how tall I am? That's how tall I was. And I weighed 120 lbs. Cuz I'll never forget the teacher told everybody. But anyway, they had to get a bigger desk to put in the room so I could have a big…there were little desks and there were little children cuz they were like, what, six? The kids in my class? I was eight, but I was a big eight. 

So anyway, I was in the first grade the whole year. By the time the school year was over, in those nine months of school…by the time it was over, I could speak English. And my brother Joe, because he had more, he was real, he still is a real outgoing and friendly person.

He could speak English before I could speak English. So I remember we would go to church. Then, after church, we would go across the street to a store to buy candy and gum and stuff. And I would say…I would talk in English to the people cuz you know, I wanna learn English. And then Joe would say, “Why are you doing that?” He goes, “Irma, don't.” He would tell me “don't speak English, you sound like a baby. You don't speak it right.” But I would, you know. So then after that, that summer, I learned English. So during that summer, my mother had me reading recipes that were in English to her, trying to interpret them in Spanish to her.

And then the next year, you know how they give you all those when you go in, they give you all the attendance cards that you have to fill out?

Erika Alonso: Mm-hmm.

Irma Camarillo: My mother gave 'em to me and I had to fill 'em out for her because my mother expected you, if you learn something, you're gonna have to use it. So then I started using my language, but I still wasn't used to the way the neighborhood was, or how we lived here after. I think maybe when I was…I started getting used to it as I got older.

But it was hard because you get used to a certain way when you're a kid and then you get over here [to the United States] and it's different. But from that moment on, we always spoke with English at my house. So I didn't lose the Spanish, not really. But the younger kids, they never picked it up or they lost it. But when we got older, we started using it [Spanish] again.

So [my sister] Yolanda is fluent now and my brother Tony, and my brother Sylvia, but those are the babies. They were not really exposed to it. Like the rest of us, we were more exposed [to the language] than they were.

Erika Alonso: And so what was it, I know you'd said a little bit about the routine in when you lived in Mexico. How was it just moving to a new school? Like, you know, you were saying that you didn't quite fit in.

Irma Camarillo: I didn't no, I didn't fit in because I was bigger to begin with. Yeah. And also I didn't know the language. Uh, So when they had to, you know, the teachers, they did not cater to you, but they were real nice and they were older women. All my teachers, I'm sure there were like two years from being retired. , they were very elderly, nice, older, white ladies, Anglos. But they were very kind like they were mean or not. I mean, they understood, let me put it that way. They understood. And there was always a kid in the class that were interpreted and there was that child in that class that would interpret for me. , he would say was she's saying this or she's saying in Spanish. He would tell me and then I would learn. And after, like I say, by the time the nine months were over, I could speak English. And I remember how they knew what group you went in and you had to be able to read certain books. You had to read like a book number one, book number two, book number three.

And that's how I was. And by the time I got out of the first grade, I could read all the books. . in English. And that's because I learned, you know, I learned the language and I'm always, and I remember when I was like, yeah, I would say still eight, because I didn't turn nine until November and I remember I was thinking in English and I said, Oh my God, I'm thinking in English.

I must really know English. And I was proud of myself because I was thinking in English.

Erika Alonso: That's incredible.

Irma Camarillo: Yeah.

Erika Alonso: Do you dream in English?

Irma Camarillo: Well now, yeah, but I'm saying back then it, because everything, I mean we were, see my grandfather and my, my grandmother from my dad's side, well like my grandfather, he could speak those three languages and I'm talking, he really could, cuz I remember the people from Westing House, they would go over there, he'd bring him over the house and, you know, whatever.

And they would be speaking in English and then he had some friends, they were French and you know, all that. I would hear my grandfather. He was, he really was an educated man. So everything, when we spoke Spanish, we didn't just speak like the, any old kind of Spanish, we spoke good, you know? Well, Because that's what we were exposed to.

Erika Alonso: Yeah. So how was school when you lived in Mexico?

Irma Camarillo: Okay. When I lived in Mexico, there were stricter than when I came here, it was more ba— this is back in the fifties, okay?. And it was more like, when the principal came in, you stood up, when an adult came in, like a teacher or somebody like that, you stood up beside your desk. You were given, you were given certain things you had to learn, and then you recited a lot, I guess that's what you said…you recited a lot, what you learned. And then they would put problems on the board or, or you know, sentences and you had to go correct them. If the, if the. . You know, like you put for a question, you put a question mark, you are used to in the front and in the back. You know, stuff like that. You would have to do it on the board. You recited a lot. A lot. And the teachers were very strict, they were a little bit off.

If you, for real, if you talked a lot and they told you not to talk the third time, they wouldn't hit you or nothing. They would come with a bandaid and put it in your mouth. On your mouth. Like, just for real. And also the games, they had games and everything was structured.

Like the games were like, you know, now you go. when I came over here. You go play, play baseball. I mean not softball or what is it? Kickball. But the teacher might be there, but they weren't struck. You know, you're just played. No, everything was structured where I went, This is Monterrey and I say this is back in the fifties. I'm sure things have changed. And they had, They had, because they had so many kids, they had two sessions. They had one from eight to 12, and they had one from one to four or one to three. Mm-hmm. I was in the morning session. My brother and I were in the morning session.

Yolanda Camarillo: Was that private or public?

Irma Camarillo: No, there was, Okay. I went to, Yeah, that's a good question. That's a good answer question, Yolanda. I went to private school, I think up to the second grade, and then on the third grade I was in at a regular school. What do you call it... Public school in Mexico. But it's different cuz you have to buy all your books, even in public school at the time, you know, it could change.

At the time you had to buy all your books. They didn't provide you with anything. Like, and I, as a matter of fact, in the third grade, I had my mother's third, third grade teacher in the public school. She was an elderly—not as old as some—but she was, she was older.

Erika Alonso: Yeah. So can you tell me a bit about the house you grew up in and...

Irma Camarillo: I grew up in a house that was next to a, a factory that made here was a factory and there was like a walk or a street or something like that. And on the other side was my house. . And it was like an old fashioned house, like the kind you have, you see now with the porch around it and all that. And my mother and my grandmother, we lived there with my dad. And my dad was, well, at that time, my dad was, he wasn't in Houston yet. This is when I was way little, like one through four. . And he was living it no, he was living with us, but he had his, he had a garage, you know?

Erika Alonso: Body Shop.

Irma Camarillo: Yeah Body shop in Brownsville. And he would go and work there and they'd come, go and work there and make his aunt, which is his aunt, which is my great Aunt her name was Chole which is Chloe, right Yolanda?

Yolanda Camarillo: It was her real name. Was like a Michelle I think. Yeah. Mother would say.

Irma Camarillo: Yeah. Yeah. Like Michelle. But I don't...

Yolanda Camarillo: But her nickname for us was Chole.

Irma Camarillo: We call her Chole. Anyway, she lived. And we would go see her like maybe once a week, maybe not. We would stay, we would stay the, I think Friday nights. My dad would pick us up and we would stay cuz that's when he got paid or that's when he made his checks.

And we would, we, he would, my mother would go and then he would pay his men. And then from there we would go and stay with my, with my aunt. Until the next day, which was midday. We would leave and come back to Matamoros. So, and we would see my, my cousins they live, which is my second cousins, they live with her.

But that was one was her child, the other one she was raising.

Erika Alonso: So it sounds like you had a very comfortable lifestyle while living in Mexico.

Irma Camarillo: I did.

Erika Alonso: And then you came here and it was very different. How did you handle that?

Irma Camarillo: Let me tell you how my parents were, Erika. This was also during the Cuban missile crisis. Yes. And everybody, I was still in the first grade then. Okay. That was, that was during my first grade, and everybody at school was going nuts. The teachers, the kids, everybody. And I would come to my house and Kennedy would be talking and he'd just be talking and talking and talking, and I could understand, you know, some of the stuff he was saying and my dad would change it, trying to find some…but at that time, there were only three channels.

So he was trying to find cowboy movies he loved, and he couldn't find any. And then he would say, “You know what, what do you think Ernesita?” and my mother says, “Well, I think we're fine, I don't wanna hear it anymore.” So he would turn it off and I would look at them, and then I would say, I think I would ask them or I would look at 'em and say, “Aren't these people nervous?” Everybody's going crazy at school and all that. And I would say, I think I did ask them, or I said, Aren't you? “What if we blow up or something?” And they said, “If we blow up, we're all together. We'll all go up together. Nobody will live.” I mean, it was just like, and so I was like, Man, I like that attitude.

So I was here. I had to make the best of it. So I did.

Erika Alonso: And you mentioned that now looking back, you understand why your father pushed so hard for y'all to come to the United States?

Irma Camarillo: Because he was some person, Erika, He was, he wanted us to have a chance at life that we would pick. He didn't want somebody to be dictating to him or to us.

And that's, that's the bottom line. That's how my dad was because he felt like… As I got to know my dad, you know when you don't know, really know your parents until you start talking to them and you're older. As I got to know my dad, I got to know that he believed that you should be your own person and that you should do whatever you choose. In other words, if you choose a crummy life, that's your choice.

If you—of course, he didn't want for us to choose that—but if you choose a good life, that's your choice too, and you can't blame anyone for it. And that's how he saw himself and that's how he brought us up. Which to me, I understand that because I'm my own person, you know, and I've always been my own person and I would hate that somebody would be subjecting me to their rules and their opinions and what I should be.

Because like my grandpa, he started indoctrinating me when I was little, when the first time we went over there was when I was seven, which was my little girl, my little sister, Beatrice was born. And then she had those problems. See what happened was there's another, my mother didn't want to go and have her [Beatrice] in the United States, but my aunt Chole said to my mom, Look, she says, I don't wanna be in a hospital with doctors and the nurses, and I don't understand them, but my Aunt Chole said, Well, you don't have to do that. There's what do you call those women? What do you call those...

Yolanda Camarillo: Midwives.

Irma Camarillo: They're midwives that speak Spanish, that you can go to a midwife. My mother made a mistake. She went to a midwife and that lady tried to take out…my mother didn't say that till she was, she was living with me, and because we were talking about how that my little sister, I said, “Mom, why did that happen to her? We don't…do we have that in our family?” And my mother says, “Look, I never said, but I'll tell you the truth. She says, The lady used forceps. And she hit her right there.”

Erika Alonso: And you think that's what caused it?

Irma Camarillo: Well, she thinks that what caused it, other things happened too. Like she got bumped in the head later, but my mother says she thinks that's what happened, because right after that happened, the baby had trouble…how do you say, Yolanda?

Yolanda Camarillo: What do you call that?

Irma Camarillo: So she had trouble nursing right from the beginning, but something else happened when my, when that little baby sister was like, maybe a week old maybe a month old or something like that.

Something else happened when she got hit. She got like hit with a chair or something around here. She says now that I'm here and I think about all this stuff, she says, I think what happened to your sister was when the lady used the forceps that hurt her. Oh. And that's when she started looking for a place and that's how we wound up over here.

Erika Alonso: Do you feel like your mother may have had a couple of y'all were in Mexico as a way to stay?

Irma Camarillo: Okay, my mother was gonna stay, she thought, but because she was very close, can you imagine one child and she's an elderly lady and she adopted my mother. Because my mother's mother died when my mother was two, or maybe, Yeah, two. She died in childbirth. She died having her second, her second child because he was too big. He wouldn't come through the canal. So she died and my grandfather, her father was raising her by himself and he had a lady that took care of her and that lady didn't, didn't take care of her.

And my grandmother, her adopted mother, had a candy shop. She made candies. And she had men that worked for her. And this man sold my little, my mother next door or somewhere around there, being next to the fans by herself. So the man told my mo, my grandmother, she knew that he knew that my grandmother loved babies and that she's lost some babies cuz she kept having miscarriages.

So she says, you know, if you really want a baby, you might wanna ask that woman next door because she let the little baby little girl go out and she's just sitting in the, in the yard. So my grandmother went over there and she found out that woman was the babysitter. And my grandfather didn't have anybody else but that woman [to watch her mother].

So my grandmother kept a look out for him and when he saw him, he just stopped him. And she says, “If you want to, I'll watch her and I won't let her go out there by herself. I'll make sure that I'll take care of her. Well, and then you can always pick her up after work.” And he said, “Okay.” So that's how she got to know her.

And then the baby needed to be baptized, so she became the godmother. And then after that, my grandfather had to travel for his business. So she said, “Look, you can go ahead and travel, leave her with me and you can come back and get her and you can see how I take care of her” and all that.

So that's how it started. And before you knew it, she just kept her with her. And so then she raised my mother. And then when he [my grandfather] came back, when she [my mother] was 14, [my grandfather] remarried and went to take her, my mother, over there. She wasn't number one. My mother was very frank. She said she wasn't number one anymore because that lady [her grandfather’s new wife] was gonna have a baby.

And she [my mother] said, “No, just let me go back to my godmother, Dad.” And he said, “Fine.” So she [my mother] came back to her mom. She only stayed there one summer, I think in Guanajuato, which is where she was born.

Erika Alonso: So you mentioned baptisms. What sort of a role has religion played in your life?

Irma Camarillo: Okay. That it was a big role.

Because my grandmother, which is my mom's adopted mother, her name was Dolores. That's why I name my daughter Dolores. , we call her Mamá Lolita okay. She would take me every morning, Sunday to mass is Sunday, as well as every day. every morning. That's how I was raised up. Everything was prayer. She just didn't get up and go. Everything was prayer because she lived through my grand, my mother's godmother lived through the hurricane in Galveston. She was in Tampico, and it hit Tampico and she thinks she was nine. She wasn't too sure her age, and all her family died except her.

So she raised herself, you know, she indenture herself to women and places and worked for them either in their house or in restaurants and stuff. And oh, she was an excellent cook. That's how she learned to cook and that's how she learned to make candy and everything. That was my mother's godmother, which became her mother.

So everything she says, she lived through the hurricane because all she did was pray when she was. You know, all her family died. All her father, mother, and sisters and brothers, they all died. She lived, so she would always take me every day to mass. Every day, every day, every day. That's just, that's how she raised me and my mother, she was always, always praying. They just prayed a lot. My mother was always praying and looking pretty. She would go get her hair done and her nails and everything. She always looked great. My mom, but they were, she was, My grandmother was always praying and always being nice to the neighbors. If there was any lady that was a — you know, this is back in Matamoros, a single mother that doesn't have a husband and has a child or the husband left or whatever, my grandmother would open their doors to them.

Well, of course, with my mom, because my, remember my dad was over here working, and by this time he was in, he was in Houston by this time. By that time I was six or seven…maybe five. He was in Houston.

Erika Alonso: So that's a little bit further. So was he traveling back and forth, or?

Irma Camarillo: Yes, he was. He was coming. He would come see us once a month or maybe twice a month, and he would send the money to my mom. And that's how we lived. But anyway, in the meantime, my mother, like I said, my grandmother always felt like charity. You had, you know, care for people, take care of people. So there was always someone at our table that was from the neighborhood or needed something. That's how my grandmother was. So my mother was like that too.

Erika Alonso: And when you moved you continued going to church and, and...

Irma Camarillo: Well, no. When I went to Monterrey the only reason I could, Okay. My grandmother died. Maita. And by the time she died, that's when we went to Monterrey. Remember, my little sister was sick and we were trying— my mother was looking for a doctor over there.

Because in a bigger city they could do that surgery on her. Well, she found one, okay. But it didn't help. You know, it just didn't help. But anyway, my—

Oh God. Okay. I'll be honest. My grandmother and my grandfather, they didn't go to church. My grandfather—I don't know how say this—I don't think, [but] he might have been an atheist—I don't think. He did not believe the church. He did not believe—he did not trust the priest. He did not trust the nuns. However, the Bishop of Monterrey—the Catholic Bishop—was my father's godfather. Now you figure that one out!

Okay. But my grandfather would sit me on his lap and tell me: “Look, I know your grandmother and your mother took you to church all the time. I want you to make your decisions for yourself. And I want you to know they are a bunch of thieves”. I'm serious! “When you go in the church all you see is gold. Now where did that gold come from?”

I’d just look at him. “From the poor people, the gullible people!” and then he would say, “And don't you ever read their Bible it makes you crazy” and all this stuff. And he would put me on his lap [and say], “And don't you go to the United States, they will mistreat you because you're Mexican American and just,” and then he would say, “they will call you Spaniard (Spanish) because they don't wanna admit you're Mexican-American, but that's what you are. So you don't wanna be mistreated. I don't know what your father's doing over there.”

 And you know, he would tell me like that, “And don't you ever become a citizen! If your father should take you over there, don't you ever be…” and he would just indoctrinate me. Indoctrinate me. 

That was my grandfather, okay?

But you would never know it cuz he was friendly! He was friendly to everybody. I mean, they would come from Westinghouse—the white people—and speak English to them friends, he'd speak English to them. Like I said, my father's godfather was the Bishop of Mexico. You figure that one out. You know...

Yolanda Camarillo: he was an altar boy...

Irma Camarillo: And my dad was an altar boy and all this, you figure my dad…so my dad didn't try to understand them [his parents]. My dad was—because my mother was very Catholic—he was Catholic, you know. But his father and my grandmother...every now and then she [my grandmother] would go.

But my grandfather…he never did. Okay. And he was dead set against the United States because they mistreated…he says “they mistreat me because of the way I look”, and he could speak English well, you know! But people that look like my grandmother—his wife—they would not take care of her. 

And see, what happened…what broke him [my grandfather] was when my uncle Antonio, that's the one that's older than my dad, like two or three years, was very ill. I, he, I think it was either, he's from Laredo, Texas, but I know for a fact they were living in Corpus Christi because I looked him up on the census. They were living in Corpus Christi during that time. Anyway, he says he [Antonio] was real sick and [my grandfather] went to the hospital and he says, “My baby's real sick. He's sitting there with my wife.” And they said, “Bring him [the sick child], we'll take care of him,” the doctor said.

When my grandmother took the baby in and they found out that they were Mexican-Americans? “We don't serve your people here.” 

So my grandfather, according to him, he got in the car, went and told the person—he ran a ranch for some man—he went and told the man, “I can't run your ranch anymore, I gotta go to Mexico. My son is dying, I need help.” So he [my grandfather] left. That's when they came over here [to Mexico]. That was the story that we were told. My grandfather told me that by his own mouth, then my dad said it over here…

Erika Alonso: And do you feel like there was any truth to that as, as you came over, do you, to the US do you feel you were treated differently or, or...

Irma Camarillo: I wasn't treated differently because I'm kind of a little bit light

Yolanda Camarillo: But we went to a Hispanic school. It wasn't, it was the majority. Tell her about that.

Irma Camarillo: About I went to Lubbock school and the majority were Hispanics. . But like I said, I was not treated bad because I was a little light. You know? But people like my brother, my brother Joe, they're darker. They were put like in a second and third, it's not a... I don't know if it's a coincidence, but everybody on the first group, they were my color or lighter.

There was one boy that sat in front of me, His name was, I'll never forget him. His name was Aguilar and the reason I won't forget him is because he was like my, he was a little darker than my brother. And he was in the front row. In front, not in front row, but it's sitting in front of me. There were two rows of people that, that were supposed to be smarter.

And I was in that row. And if you look down that row, everybody's light are my color. And then, like I said, there was that little boy, his name was Aguilar. I don't remember his first name, but his name was Aguilar and he was very dark. And I would say he must really be smart. I would say that because I figured, you know, I was, I was a very, I don't know if you say smart or a child, that I knew what was going on like Bella.

I knew what was going on, you know. And then when I was, look at my brother, Joe, he's, he's bright, he's smart, He, I mean, and I would see him and they would always throw him in a second group or third group. And I would always say, and I would say, Joe, let's read. And we would read. He could read. And I was like, Why?

And then I, you know, I knew why.

Erika Alonso: And growing up, do you feel like you have encountered any of that sort of, you know, discrimination?

Irma Camarillo: Well, not at my home, cuz my father had a, we had a very a very high opinion of ourselves.

Yolanda Camarillo: Positive outlook.

Irma Camarillo: Yeah. Like, you know, like we were like, Hey, you know, I got it made. I'm, hey, you know, that, that kind of attitude, you know, like, don't tell me what I can be, I know what I can be, you know, that kind of attitude.

Erika Alonso: Yeah. So you have been in Houston for a very long time.

Irma Camarillo: Yes.

Erika Alonso: I would love to know how you feel that it's changed over time.

Irma Camarillo: Oh, well, it's changed a lot.

Erika Alonso: Half a century.

Irma Camarillo: Oh, it's changed a lot. When I first came here, like I said, yeah, Mexican Americans were treated like a second class citizen. And now, I mean, now like, I can't say it, but you know, sometimes I think when I see people that they're just full of themselves and they say, Well, this is my right, this is my dad. And I feel like telling him, Listen, if it wasn't for people like my father and even me, you wouldn't have any rights.

You'd be like, you were like, They wanna like it was . Okay. But people like my father, he paid the price, you know? And then I came along and because my father treated us so well, we, I didn't know what it was like until I went working in the real world. , then I found out. But then they, they would like try and then they would see how smart I was to leave me alone.

But then I would see how they shuffle other people around. Not only me, not only because of, but you know, anybody that's different...

Yolanda Camarillo: Because the norm with you and me, the Hispanic girls didn't want to keep attending school. They would just get pregnant and drop out and that was the norm.

Irma Camarillo: And my mother, she was like, this, this is what she would say. She would say, Do you, do y'all wanna be like me? Look how I am right now because of the language and everything, but look at me, you don't wanna be like that. You get yourself an education. and then you could call the shots. And if, if you don't like the man he's abusing you, you get up and go with your child cuz you have an education.

Yolanda Camarillo: And also she said you never know what the future, you can control your own future. She goes, get your education. Of course God was always first cause he would open yours, get your education. Which is cuz she would tell my dad, Treat him good. Be kind to them. Cuz you never know what kind of men they're gonna, men, they're gonna marry.

But then mom would pull me aside and says, Yolanda, get your education. Not only if he turns out to be a bad man, I hope you get a good man, but if he dies , what if he, he goes, You have, you're prepared for life and you can provide for your children. Have a good life. And she would always make sure, Right, Irma?

Irma Camarillo: Yeah, she would do that. But to me, she told me something else. I've always been a chubby girl. Right. And she knew that I was very, thank God, very intelligent. Like mother says, You're smart and it's not from me. God gave me that. Okay. And she would tell me because I was trying to, you know, just get by and just eat 'em up

cause I would bring home all A's and they would make a fus, Erika they were just like, Okay, like that's suspected of me. And I was like, I would tell the kid, I would say, My friends let's school say look, this is what I made. Oh, what did your parents do for you? I said, My parents. They just said, that's good, you know?

And then my, Cause I tell mommy, why are you like that? And then one time she just had enough of me because I was like, Bring them all C's or something, just to see the reaction. And she says, Irma what's wrong with you? I said, Why? She goes, You know you. I said, Mommy, you never say nothing when I do all A's so what's? She goes, Irma you've always been chubby. She tells me you're not gonna get rid of that weight, you can, you're not gonna be able to get by and cross your legs and pull up your skirt a little because that won't work for you. So you better develop that mind and get well it, get it done if you want to amount to something in this life.

I said, okay mom and that worked. I mean, I was like, okay, you got it down and now I know they're not gonna make a fuss. That's just how expected. Because they were different. They not, they expected us to do the best we can and they did not expect to reward you for what you're supposed to do. And that's the truth.

Erika Alonso: Do you feel like there, there were or are more opportunities for women in terms of independence and success?

Irma Camarillo: Oh, definitely.

Erika Alonso: In the U.S. versus Mexico?

Irma Camarillo: Def, I don't know about Mexico cause I haven't been there since I got here at eight. My parents never took us back. Okay. You know, my dad. But they went back after they retired.

You couldn't get him out of there. But, but as far as worse more, no, but lemme tell you something. My father did not raise us like a regular macho man. He raise us like independent women. He wanted to have a boys, but he only had two boys and the rest of us, five girls. So he raised us independent. . He raised us to think for ourselves.

And I'll tell you a story. When we would go to Mex—, Monte— no, Brownsville. , my cousin, he was old fashioned, you know, it was only one, He was two boys. He was the main, the son of Chole and then he had his cousin who grew up with him because she couldn't have any more children. So she didn't want him to grow up by himself.

Okay. His father would treat him like a macho, macho, like a macho man. Okay. We were treated like we are. So when it was time to go to bed, it, we went to visit one day and we went, you know, my dad got on the table and Yolanda got on the table too, and all the men were at the table and I saw him and I said, No, I better not go cause I know how Beto is. He'll say something. Sure enough, Yolanda was talking to the men. They're all talking and laughing and everything, and Beto says, Yolanda, what do he say to you Yolanda?

Yolanda Camarillo: He says, You're outta place. You don't belong here.

Irma Camarillo: Yeah, Yolanda, you're outta place. You don't belong here. This is for the men.

Yolanda Camarillo: And I looked at Dad, like..,

Irma Camarillo: that's not how he brought us up.

One time we were going a long time, he was livid. Where were you? I said, Where were y'all? Us three girls? I said, We went to the Mercado. He goes, What's wrong with y'all? You're not supposed to go anywhere by y'all selves you're supposed to take a man with y'all. And we're like I said, Beto where have you been? I said, My dad, he gives us, I mean my dad brought us up like we can think for ourselves , you know, he didn't bring us up like that. See, and probably we would've been brought up like that if we had gone over there. Yeah. We would've been brought up like that, but we weren't. My father always, like women's lib we didn't have to worry about women's lib.

We already had it. At our house. You know, that's how he, I remember when we got a car, he was, he told us, This is how you change a tire and stuff like that. I mean, my dad was very, and he expected us to know how to handle men. He didn't expect us to be taken by a man or be abused or anything. He just didn't, he just didn't expect it. he just taught us to be progressive women. Independent women.

So, I'll tell you a story, Angela ---excuse me, Erika when I was growing up, Okay. I got married when I was 31 to Stan between that I had a lot of boyfriends and you know how they would tell me, I'm sorry, I can't. , I'm sorry. I like your life. You're a real nice woman. You have very good values, but I can't handle you. You're too much out there. I said, What are you talking about? You don't know you're a woman. I said, What do you mean? And one of them told me that his name was Roy. He did tell me that. He goes, You don't know your place. And I was like, I said, Lord, I don't know what they're talking about. I tried the ones in the church. They were like that, like that too. I tried the ones that were not in the church, they were like that. I said, I don't know, Lord, Why you made me like this. You better send me the right one. He sent me, Stan. The second day he took me to meet his mother. I met his mother and I said, Lord, this man can handle me.

Look at that woman. She was five foot four at the most. She weighed about 110, 120. But that little woman was a spitfire. And I saw her and I said he can--- and then I met his sister's and I said, Forget it, this man, he won't be scared of me. He can handle me.

Erika Alonso: So can you tell me about the time you met Stan?

Irma Camarillo: Okay. Hmm...

Erika Alonso: Or a time that you remember?

Irma Camarillo: Okay. I met Stanley on a Sunday. We went to, we went to eat. Okay. I was working, I was going to school and working the graveyard shift. So I got off from the graveyard shift and he was supposed to come and pick me up and he came to pick me up and I saw him. And then we went to eat at a restaurant.

And when we were eating, the Lord told me, This is the man you're gonna marry. And I looked at him and I said, Oh no Lord, no way. Look at those thick glasses. You can't even see his eyes. His glasses are the thick. And look at him. He's not even Mexican. He's a white boy. I don't know, Lord. And all this I was saying, And then little by little, I got to know him and then I got to know his family. And then he's very clear. I mean, he's very, what they call it now...

Erika Alonso: Direct?

Irma Camarillo: He's very direct and he's very he doesn't put a facade. , he, how it is, That's how he is. . So that's good. I mean, because I know if he can't stand me, he'll let me know right away. He'll be, he won't be like those crazy men , you know, that, that didn't tell me. And then when we're getting serious, they come up with their speeches. So at least I knew what, you know, where he knew what he was getting into. And he was transparent. That's the word. He was transparent.

And so was his fam— his sisters, he's got a real, real sweet sister that used to be was studying to be a nun and was about to become a nun when she met her husband. So she left, she didn't go back for the final. And then he's got a sister that's, she's got a kick to her. , so, , you know, I met them and this, they were like that.

And I was like, Hey, this is good. This is the kind of people I wanna be around, not people that, that present themselves something else. And at the end you find out something different. Because I take people as they are. If people show me this, this is how they are, then I find out that's not how they are. And then I go, Oh God, how did I fall--- but that's because I take, I am how I am, and I'm gonna show you how I am. So I expect that from you. So that's why, And when I met his mother, I knew it. I mean, it was like, she's just like, she says, this is how he, she said it like it came, she just said it, you know? And my parents were like that. And then his sisters were like, except for Janelle, she's very sweet. She won't, she'll do her best not to offend you but you know that. She's very sweet. She's very sweet. Now, Helen, you know, she'll let you know. Which is good. You know, you know where you stand. Like, I would come to her house after church all the time. And because it was. You know, we would have breakfast and I'm always used to having my lunch and I would have to wait for her to, cuz she wanted us to come for lunch on Sundays.

So we have to wait for her to do the lunch. The girl just barely getting started to do her lunch and it wouldn't be an easy thing. It would be like a roast, she gotta put the oven and all this stuff. So I was like, Oh my God, what am I gonna eat? And all that. So I would come in the house and then I would say, I don't smell like food.

Oh my God. And I would look at her and she goes, Do you have no, I would say Helen, do you have two aspirins? I have a headache because I did have a headache from not eating and now I knew I had to wait longer. I get a bigger headache. And then she was, then one day she couldn't take anymore. She comes to the door with a bottle of aspirin and she says, I know you have a headache. Here's the aspirin and that taught me, you know, she's not gonna change. She's still so either come take your aspirin before you get in there and just get over it. , because this is how she did it two hours later, one an hour and a half for for sure the food will be ready. But then she expected us to come every Sunday cuz our church was near her house and we would come and we'd also bring her mother and she wanted to see her mother.

Erika Alonso: Yeah. So to sort of make a little bit of a jump, I have a list of a lot of hurricanes that have hit Houston over the years. And you've been here for a lot of them.

Irma Camarillo: Yeah, I've been here for all of them.

Erika Alonso: Yeah. So I'm curious...

Irma Camarillo: Okay. I'll start with the first one. Okay. Carla?

Erika Alonso: Yes.

Irma Camarillo: That was in 1960. That was the year we had just 1961. I think we had just gotten here. Mm-hmm. Remember I told you about my parents and the missiles crisis? . Okay. Everybody was getting their kids and taking them somewhere. not my dad. He has, he's sitting down looking at the TV and my mother is saying, Salvador, all of — all our neighbors have gone to Rusk —it's the school. Because of the weather. They don't want their houses fall down or whatever. He goes, I've been through the these a lot, Nothing happens. And then my mother says, Salvador, the weather started getting real bad. I mean bad. And we had three beautiful oak trees. One was on the side and the other two were in, the two were in the front and one was on the side and there were big— they were big, giant and thick. And they were bending over and we're looking out and we go, Oh, there goes a tree. You know that craziness. So my mother looks and she goes, We gotta go. And she tells us, Grab those. Cuz my mother had. Has the blankets already folded. Our clothes already folded, We're gonna have it we stay over there. So she says, Me--- Irma, Jose— that's Joe— get your stuff and let's go. So my dad was like, and he saw that she meant it now. So he went and got in the car and we all got in the car. The school was only like a block away. So we went, we, That's how we, That was Carla.

Erika Alonso: Yeah.

Irma Camarillo: Okay. The rest of them, we didn't do anything.

Erika Alonso: You just stayed.

Irma Camarillo: We stayed in the house, but we didn't have any trees. That house just had too many trees. Oh, I didn't tell you. The tree that could bending all the way down. It fell down, but it didn't hit the house. It hit the, the yard. It went on the yard. And as a matter of fact, my little sister Dolo---, my mother said, Don't get on those trees. us bigger ones, we didn't, But little Dolores, she snuck around and she got on the tree. It nicked her right here. One of the branches? Yeah. She's, she still has the scar I don't know if she still has.

And then I'm gonna tell you about the last one. Okay. That was when they were, when my parents were alive. And then the last one that, What was the name of that one?

Yolanda Camarillo: Harvey?

Irma Camarillo: No, that's us.

Yolanda Camarillo: Alicia was the name.

Irma Camarillo: Okay. Alicia. Alicia. When I, when I was doing Alicia, I already knew Stanley.

We had just met the year in 83, and I got stuck at, I worked for the light company, and the light company would provide you a place to stay. They would even get you close. So if you had to take a shower and change, but they would not let you come home. Yolanda was pregnant. Were you pregnant?

Yolanda Camarillo: No, I just got married. I only been a month married.

Irma Camarillo: Okay. We were working on the same shift. Yeah. Three. But Yolanda, I don't know how, how did you leave? But she left. Okay.

Yolanda Camarillo: I left.

Irma Camarillo: She left.

Yolanda Camarillo: I, I got, My husband, my new husband, I said, Pick me up. I was emotional basket case. And then the boss says, I can't make you stay. So I left.

Irma Camarillo: And me, I was like, I was like, Okay, well she left now the both of us can't leave. And I said, besides, I don't have nobody to worry about me. My parents know I'm here. And I said, I'll stay, but I didn't know I was gonna turn into three days. On the third day I was still there. So I called my dad. I said, Dad, come get me.

He goes, Do you have water? Yes. Do you have a place to stay? Yes. Do you have food? Yes. Then he goes, Do you have bathrooms? I go, Yes. He goes, Do you have lights? I go, Yes. He goes, Then you're doing better than us. He goes, Call the call your amigos. Over there at the, at the, what do you call those places? The main place at the shop, What do you call that?

Yolanda Camarillo: The light company?

Irma Camarillo: Yeah, but for the, for the guys' work.

Yolanda Camarillo: Oh, the sub office?

Irma Camarillo: Yeah. Called people at your sub office. Tell 'em to come over here. That line fell. Tell 'em to come and put the, the thing I said. Okay. And I called and you know, because you take emergency calls and everything so they know you.

I said, listen, my parents, they weren't that elderly, but I said, they're elderly, please could you go get their, this is my address. Go get their lights. They go, Well, we have it here, but it was the main line. I said, Go put the line back on please. He goes, Okay. . So the guy went and put the light back on.

I knew not to call my dad again. So I call him, I say Stan, I've been here three days. They won't come. My parents won't come get me. I don't want to be here. Everybody's going home except me. He goes, Okay, I'll go get you. And he came and got me and he got through all the barricades, the policemen, and everything, and he kept saying that I was there and all this, and he got me, he took me to his house and his apartment, and I said, This guy I'm gonna keep. Cause was, we were going back, we could see there was nobody, the police were there, you know, they were stopping people from not going. But he got me through and I came, I came over there that evening we waited and then he took me to my house.

But I'm just saying that's one thing I knew. My dad wasn't gonna get me to go out, but he came and got me. So I said, This guy, I'll keep. So.

And all the others. All the others. Well, there was one, the main one, Yolanda, when you went to your to Oklahoma, which one was that? Alfred? Albert?

Yolanda Camarillo: Gilbert.

Irma Camarillo: Gilbert.

Yolanda Camarillo: Gilbert. Cause I told the Lord, you know that they---

Irma Camarillo: Yeah. Well, was supposed to go, Her husband got a promotion over there in Oklahoma.

Yolanda Camarillo: That new job. A new—

Irma Camarillo: Yeah. That paid more money. But he didn't know, She didn't wanna leave Houston cuz of her parents and all of us. But she told the Lord, if the thing don't hit, if it don't hit cause they're supposed to come straight at us, then I know that you want me to go over there.

So she went over there. But us nothing happened, the only the last one that we had was Hardy?.. Harvey, and nothing happened to us. Now between that, we had Rita, and when I was working at Rita, I was working at the, at the electric company.

Yolanda Camarillo: Ike hit

Irma Camarillo: Yeah, but Rita was before Ike. When Rita hit, I was the electric company and that's where all Yes I was. Yeah. And that's where all the cars got stuck on the freeways. Yes. Right. Yeah.

Stan's family, they were coming and they got stuck on the freeway right by where we lived. We live over Highway six in southwest Houston. Over there. , we were lived in, in an apartment and then they called Stan and they said, We're stuck on Highway six, can we come to your house? When I was working--- working for the electric company, and they don't care. You're like a doctor on call. They said, You have to come and take calls. I said, I have my, I have my husband. And my two children, and then my daughter, Dolores. , she always has friends with her. She had a friend with her. Okay. Her friend's mother took off and left the girl here, which to me it was crazy. A little 16 year old girl. So I said okay. I have a little girl that's not a relative, She's my daughter's best friend and I can't leave her. Her mother left. They go bring all of them. So they put us all up in a, in a hotel in downtown. It wasn't the Hyatt, it was the one behind the Hyatt. And they put us in the hotel. That was that one.

And then Ike, they learned their lesson from Rita cuz a lot of people not only brought, brought one person, they brought the grandparents and everybody. So they learned. So from then on, it was like with Ike, it was just supposed to be the person that works there and it was up to the relatives to make the best do whatever they're gonna do by themselves.

I went with Ike and my best friend, her name is Kathy, we were together. Okay. And to me it was crazy because there was people that were about to have babies. They were really up there. . and they were having problems. Like they started having like, what do you call those pains and nobody could get through.

And they were on the beds and there was one that was having an asthma attack and they couldn't get her under control. And me and my friend were looking and we're just, and I said, What do I do? What do I do? And then we, I said, Let's pray. And then I said, Let's go pray for, I was gonna go pray. And they turned me back.

You can't go. I said, Okay, fine. And I said, Kathy, let's just. Let's pray and do this. So we were doing, because we didn't want them to have the babies there, there was nobody trained. Yeah. And that lady that was having the, the, the not seizure, but that thing, she couldn't breathe. It was terrible. And so we prayed and then, and then Kathy says, What do we do?

I said, Let's get away from here. Let's just keep praying somewhere else cuz I'm getting this, I'm getting upset. So we went and she was too, We went. Went to the, They had us in the ballroom. . And there was one spot and it was empty. Everybody was on the sides and they're all crunched together. I said, Kathy, these people are so crazy they can't even be away from each other for a minute.

Look how they're all crushed together. And Kathy goes, Uhhuh. And then I said, What do we do? She goes, Look over there. There's nobody there. I said, Well, let's take, They gave you a mattress and all. . Let's take it over there and go over there. So, when, and we put the mattress right there and and they were all staring at us.

All. Everybody's staring at us. We're in the middle, They're the size. Mm-hmm. . And then Kathy says, Why are they staring at us? I said, Oh, they're just crazy cuz they like to be all bunched up. They're talking about us cause we don't like to be bunched up. And then Kathy looks up and she goes, Irma, that's why they're not coming.

The thing that we were under, Oh, it was shaking. looked like it was gonna cut down, but they wouldn't tell us. And then we, I said, What do we do? I said, Let's crawl Kathy, because she's real little like you. Mm-hmm. . She says, Let's crawl off. So we crawled off until we got to their sites, and then we got up and we went to the room where they had the tv. But that was Ike.

Erika Alonso: That was Ike.

Irma Camarillo: Okay. And then after that, we were on call. , Was it seven 20? . We were called seven 20 at the light company. And because I had been through Alicia, remember I told you? And the light company, when I was through Alicia, they made you get on a, on a van and they made you drive through Alicia to the hotel.

The Hyatt was all tore up, so they didn't wanna keep us at the Hyatt. They kept us in a hotel further down. Toward the suit, you know, towards, down that way. Mm-hmm. , they took us there and this man was driving it and we're all in there. There was like 14 or 15 of us, and then the, the cords going like this, the stuff is flying and all this craziness, and he knows I'm supposed to be a real Christian.

He goes, Irma, are you back there? I go, Yes, start praying. And I said, I will, but everybody else too. So we were praying and we finally got there. You know, and we, we drove through that. So when Alicia comes, they tell me I wasn't in the depart— I was, I was, I think I was an instructor. I was already an instructor.

I was an instructor. So what they did was they put all the instructors to get back on the phone. , and they're telling you, Okay. The thing has just gone by, but there's still a lot of wind and debris all over. And they say, Well now y'all gonna have to get on those vans and go to Harrisburg where we have the office for the phones. And I said, I'm not going. and Kathy says, I, They didn't tell Kathy too cuz she was the manager or something. . And I said, Kathy, I'm not going. She goes, Irma, if you don't go, they're gonna fire you. I said, I don't care. They fire me. She goes, Irma, I said, I am not going, Kathy, I've been through this already.

I'm not gonna do it again. I was young, I wasn't married when I went through that. I'm not gonna do it again. And Kathy goes, Okay Irma, are you serious? I go, Yes. And we were roommates and she sees me that I'm not putting on, you know, to go over there. And she goes, Okay, I'll be back. And she went and told one of the people that Irma's gonna get fired because she's not going to go over there because she says she's been through it in Alicia, she's not going back. So that woman who was supposed to be my friend anyway, she said, Okay, that's okay. Don't say anything. Just tell her to go with you. So I went where she went. . So I didn't have to go. But also other women that work with me, they. And boy, they were livid. They call my the manager who's home in her Nice warm home with her lights on over there in Missouri City. We don't know where Irma is. She's not here. Irma's not here. We don't know where she is. Dang you. Where what? I don't know where she is. And they call my husband to get him worked up. You know, like, where's your wife? Like, I took off with somebody or something.

And, and Stan goes, She's there. Well, she, they can't find her. Stan goes, Well, y'all didn't look very hard. She's there. And I told God, I told my husband later, I said, Stan, I'm so glad you trust me. And then my boss, when the .... okay, they have us on 20, what is it, 24/7? , we work 12 hours, then we work another--- you know, it's just like you only get a couple of hours rest once the thing was over. And then my ma, my manager says, You know, I called your husband, You weren't around. I said, You know where I was? She goes, Yeah, I know. I said you were trying to get me in trouble with my husband said, but my husband knows me. He trusts me. Yeah, but that was Ike.

Erika Alonso: Yeah, that was Ike and that was 2008.

Irma Camarillo: What about Allison?

Oh, on Allison. Oh, this is a good one. Okay. This manager, the one I'm telling, she's the one. She kept promoting me, thank God. But anyway, she had just gotten to know me and when you worked for the light company, you can't leave in the middle of summer.

No kind of, no kind of what you call it, vacation or nothing. And she says, I go up to her, she has just taken over cuz the light company bought us HL&P bought the gas company. I was with the gas company. So then we became part of the light company and she took over as our manager. Yolanda knew her before I knew her.

And I went up to her and I tell Yolanda Should I, could I ask her? She goes, Yeah, she's a nice person. You can ask her. So, because Stanley got off, you know, he worked for the, for the mail and . And you just can't get off anytime the kids were off because it was summer. So I went and asked her, I said, Can I have off?

She goes, You know, you don't ask for that. Now you, you all people know that. I said, Look, we're gonna try to go visit. Husband's dad, We ha he hasn't seen him since he was six. We're going to New York and we have the money and we can, we can do it now. I said, Please let me do it. And she goes, Well, ha. I said, Look, I've done everything for this company. Whatever they want, I do look at my records. I said, Go, go through my records. I told her, I said, I've never not done it. I said, But this time I need to go. And besides there's no hurricane, but it wasn't a hurricane and it was supposed, I said, There's no hurricane coming. She goes, So that day we waited for my check to come.

My check came and he got the, it came right before it started raining that day. , he got, we got a little bit of rain, like a little drops, but we got the check, we cashed it and we hit the road. . Well, we're over there--- where were we? We were somewhere in Ohio. When it comes to when the mayor of Houston gets on the thing and says, Well, Houston's doing the best they can with Allison. This tropical storm is flooded everywhere in Southwest Houston. Everything in Southwest Houston is underwater and all this stuff, and people are having trouble getting to their work in downtown Houston. And I said, I'm not there. I got away from it. God gave ---- god opened the door and we went. We went to a — we went all over the United States. All up to New York. To see his dad. We went all the way over there. And when I came back, you know, I went back to work I saw that park you probably know that park that's in downtown ...

Yes. Sam Houston Park. Sam Houston Park. And we have all the, where it has the old houses and all that stuff. Okay. Everything was tore up because had been underwater and the houses had the, the mark of the water and it was all the way to the roof. And I said, I missed this. Thank God I missed this.

And then Hardy. Hardy. I was here. And Hardy didn't affect us at all.

Erika Alonso: Really?

Irma Camarillo: No flooding. Your, your, your sister and her husband. They picked the good house.

The house they picked over here and we were buying this because we wanted to be near them because of ballet and everything. We went to a realtor and the realtor, we looked and we said, Where is a place in this area where it doesn't flood? It's, and they go, Well, there's a hundred year flood here and there. I said, No, I don't want no flood cuz a hundred year flood, it can happen.

I said, I want no flood. This was the only area. This village it was the only area around here that did not flood. So we picked this area. We couldn't afford the house, so we were in this town home. Yeah. All the way home. Yeah. And I bought this town home with my, we were in it, my retirement.

That's a good company, by the way. I worked for CenterPoint. CenterPoint. Yeah, it was, It became, This is what God did for me, Erika I went from the electric, I quit the electric in 84, I guess, and then I didn't work for a while cuz the doctor said I was having trouble getting pregnant. . And the doctor said I couldn't get pregnant. I was under a lot of stress. So maybe I needed to relax, so I stopped working. And those three months will I stop working. . I got pregnant. And then I could go back to work. But I didn't want to go back to the electric because the electric was very stressful for me. See, I was bilingual and wherever they needed a bilingual, if you're good, they call you. So I always had a job. Not only that, but I made, they would, every time I would say, I gotta leave. Right? I can't do it anymore. Like when I just got married, I wish it was the understanding they had me on the graveyard shift, but it was with the understanding that I would go to the day shift.

They wouldn't let me. And every time that I would go and talk to them, they'd throw money at me and of course, you know, I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna take the money I needed because then was still in school, you know, before he graduated. So when I left, I just get my, they, they held my, they held my resignation for a couple of weeks and they kept telling the girls to call me and telling me that they hadn't put it in.

But I still wanna come, but I didn't come back. Instead, I waited and I got pregnant and I went to work for the gas. Which I forgot what gas it was. It was Entex gas. And then from there I had my boy Steven, and I worked for them I think till 1990. And then I stopped working because I had to be home to raise the kids because because we had Dolores and Steven, and one time we came home and my Dolores, she was real quiet, studious child. She'd read, play with her dolls and whatever, and she got away from from Florine and Florine thought she was in a room reading cuz she would read a lot and the girl was outside sitting on a, on a hill of ants. You know, going like this, getting the ants off of her.

And I walked out, but she wasn't screaming or nothing. And I walked out there and she's just pulling on everything. Took off her pants, trying, I said, What's going on? I said, Dolores, you on a hill of ants? And I got her and I took her inside and I, you know, washed her off the stuff. And then I said, Florine, she was outside.

Oh, she's always so quiet. She is. Yeah. And she had been looking. At her books, all her books were all around her. She just read a lot. Yeah. And so then I said, Stan, he goes, Irma, you know what this means. I said, What that means you gotta stay home with your children? I said, But he go. I said, Well, how about my parents?

He goes, Your parents didn't have these children. My mom didn't have these children. We had these children. , you could have to stay home. I said, Oh, I don't know. And he says, I'm going with you. I said, Okay. I didn't quit. And the next day he says, You know what? This time we're not playing, I'm gonna park here and I'm going up with you.

I said, No, you don't have to. I'll tell him. And I had just gotten a promotion and I went and told the lady that I was gonna, I couldn't work anymore.

And to wrap up, I wanted to ask you what you love about Houston the most? What I love about Houston the most, most is that there is a, a metropolitan area and there's diversity.

There's all kinds of people and you can learn from anyone. And it's wonderful to meet new people. Like when Stanley had, Stanley has to do that treadmill every four years or something for his heart. By the way, he has perfect heart. A hundred percent Came back, he came from a 20 to a 40 to a hundred percent. After he had his heart attack. But anyway, we went over there so he could, they could check his legs on his legs, his heart, but he had to be on the treadmill. And we were there and we met a lady named Shauna, and she was Muslim. And we started talking to her and she said that was a day when in their Muslim tradition, it was a day when Jake was it...

Yolanda Camarillo: Abraham.

Irma Camarillo: Abraham put, Jacob was said, Jacob, I see, put Isaac on the, on the altar to kill him. , because God said, Kill your son. And then the Lord stopped him because the la the Lord had a ram in the bush. Animal, you know? Mm-hmm. a clean animal to kill instead of his son. So the lady says that's what the day was, and she had told their Lord, , she wanted people that would pray with her.

And that day I called her over because I have this thing Erika . Sometimes I forget people's faces and to me they look like someone and they're not. , we were in the cafeteria when Steve--- Stanley went up to get his le— like his heart tested. We were in the cafeteria and this lady that was a young girl like you kept looking at me, asked me and Yolanda and I said, and I kept smiling at her.

She kept smiling back. So I thought she was that lady cuz we were at our car. We went to, our car, was sitting in our car and she, I looked at her and I go, Oh, that's that lady. So I smiled at her And then I called her over and she says, I said, Look, I'm not gonna do nothing to you. Just come over. So she comes over and then we're asking them questions of the park about the parking attendant.

Cuz he was charging some people and some people he wasn't charging. So we wanted to know what's going on. So we asked her, she goes, I had to pay that $8. Then you look, look over there, says $6. Okay, well what about y'all Say he won't ask us. Don't worry about it if he's not asking you. And then I said, Oh, God is good.

And Yolanda did too. Oh, we had, God is so good. He goes, she goes, You know what today is. And she told us and she says, And I asked the Lord to send some people to pray with me because I want my children to grow up cuz her husband and her were divorced. She goes, And I want my children to grow up good and to do what they go to college and everything.

And, and one of 'em was, or something and she wanted 'em to get good grades. And I said, Well, we could pray for that. And we started talking. . And then she told us that today in her religion, it was a time that you ask God for, for certain things and he gives 'em to you. . So we prayed with her. Now she says, You can't — what do y'all believe in? I said, Well, we're Jesus' name. We believe that. We believe in Christ. We believe in Jesus. We believe that you say your prayer, and then you say in Jesus name. . And she said, . I want the prayers, but you can't say in Jesus' name. And then I said, Then it won't work cuz the Bible says you, This is how you pray.

You pray, Lord Jesus Lord, do this, do this for me in the name of Jesus. And that's how you close it. And that's what gets it. She goes, Well, I, I can't do that. Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross from you and all your sins were there and all this, and all the blood and everything? I say, Yes we do.

Hmm. But, but I do need a husband. I said, Well, God will pick your husband. That's what you want. I said, If God picks your husband, he won't mess up. I said, He picked my husband. . And then she goes, Hmm. And then Yolanda said the same thing. And then she goes, Okay, you can pray for me. And we pray for her.

And we did say in Jesus name, she let us. And then, but what I'm saying, we met this lady.

Yeah. And you meet people from every part everywhere in the world here in Houston. . And then you find you have things in common with them. . So yeah. I love Houston. I've been to other places, but I won't stay. Like when we were in the, In the Catholic? Not the Catholic.... Oh, I became Pentecostal. I left that out.

But anyway, I became Pentecostal. The Pentecostal church was like a little, they were all, But that's another reason my. younger siblings picked up Spanish, cuz that was a completely Spanish church. . And it was hard for them at first, cuz they would say, chapter one verse six and they would say, capito de uno and, And we were going home one day and Yolanda goes, I like that church, but I just can't get over. They're always calling that man out, capitulo. I said capitulo means chapter , Yolanda.

Yolanda Camarillo: About ? You know that? Mexican. Actor. I thought that was the name of a person. I said, I like that church. But they sure talk about that "capitulo" man every time. Did you leave alone with this? Oh my god, my is so bad.

Irma Camarillo: I was a very rebellious child. Everybody in my family wasn't like Joe. He would do certain, but he wouldn't go over Mela. Forget Mela. I mean, she's a little saint walking around and Dolores would do it, but behind people's back, my sister. Me, I'll do it to your face and you're my parent. I was like, hey you, you know, you just be able to deal with this. So like, okay. My mother had us really into the Catholic, the, we went to two churches. We went to Guadalupe, which is over there on navigation. . And we went to Blessed Sacrament, which is Hunt in Sherman we would go to Guadalupe one day, we would go to Bless Sacramento twice, once on Saturday. And one's on Sunday. and we would do this all the time. When I got to be a teenager, I started questioning like, Why am I doing, And then I remember my grandfather, right? And I started thinking all this stuff and stuff. And so I started telling my, I don't know, mom, I don't really don't think this.

And mom was just, Okay, we're gonna put a stop to this. So she went and talked to monsieur father Davis. We grew up in the Blessed Sacrament, so he knew us. . So he, every Saturday I have a meeting with. for an hour. My mother would take me, she'd wait outside and we'd talk. . And that was to get my mind back like it should be. And I was doing this and then all through high school and then I started going to college. And then I started working and then I started still, I was still with my questions. So this little old man, he was a Baptist man, I was working at a nursing home. . He gave me a Bible. He said, I like you. You're a real nice girl, real nice, but you never smile. You always look like you're thinking about something. You have a front like this all the time. He goes, Why? What are you? I said, I'm a Catholic. And then he started telling me, Do you know. Christ. Jesus Christ died for your sins. You should be happy. And nine— how old are you? I said 19. Those are the best years of your life.

You shouldn't act like you're carrying something you're not. And then you start telling me, he says, Ask your parents. You say you're a Catholic girl. I say, Yes. Ask your parents if I can give you a Bible. Cause I'm not gonna give it to you unless they say yes. . And I said, Okay. And he says, Next week when I see you, he says, My, my pastor comes to see me. I forgot what day he'll be here and he'll bring me a Bible and you come over here so he can, I can have a witness that your parents said okay, Because you're a minor still. And I said, Okay. So on that day I came, he gave me a Bible. . And this pastor asked me and talked to me and all that.

So, okay, I have the Bible, take the Bible home, and I read it. and I read it with Mela. Mela was glad cuz I wouldn't, you know, I won't have to be crazy cuz I would talk her, you know, she wouldn't have to hear me cuz me, she was like my sounding board. , she'd hear me say this crazy things, you know? So she wouldn't have to hear me if I get straightened out.

So then I start school again, and then I start working again and then I start now I says, look, or am I just read your Bible it would help you. Yeah. So I started, but I kept thinking about, my grandfather said, Remember that you go nuts. Yeah. And that you shouldn't read it and all that. So then I started reading my Bible and in my, in the Bible it says X to X one.

And that's how all churches got, Oh, all Christian churches. That's how they got started. And it says, that God will change you. You accept the Lord is your savior. You say, Lord Jesus, forgive me for my sin, and you're baptized in Jesus name, but he gives you the holy ghost. And I found it. And then I told Mela and she looked at it, she says, Oh, that's what it says. She goes, But you need it. I don't think I need it. I said, Okay, fine. And then a man invited me to his church on the bus. . And during that time, Erika it was Jesus freaks. I don't know if you, No, you weren't even born. It was people that believed that Jesus is the way, but they were like, it was like one was hippies and one was Jesus.

And some of the Jesus freaks went over to the hippies, right? . So the man was telling me about Jesus and I kicked him. I said, No, I'm a Catholic. Even though I knew, Yeah, I kicked him. And I said, No. See if he'll ever ask me again. And I went and I told that bus driver no, I said, I told everybody, I said, Y'all better not sit next to that man or close to him cuz he is gonna start telling you about Jesus.

He's a Jesus freak. . And I told everybody with a loud boys on the bus. Yeah. And I went and said somewhere else. And then I went home and I told him, Can you imagine this mess telling me about Jesus and all that? Can you believe it? It's not even a Catholic church. She goes, What have you been reading? I said The Bible. And what did it tell you? I said, Yeah, it told me something different. She goes, Well, why did you do? I said, Look, if that, if that's to me from God, then I'll see that man again and I'll say, Yes, but if it's not from God, I will never see him again. Cause the man didn't ride the bus. Well then I saw him again and this time he invited me to his church. He said his family would come and I went to the church and as soon as I walked in the church it felt good and then all these people were raising their hands and everything and I said, Hmm, they're okay. And he sent me to a real nice girl that now I know her name, Yolanda went to co--- college with her, but she's my age, older.

Anyway, she was-- Bible college. . And she was sitting there and she was raising her hands and they were singing real, pretty and everything. And I said, I said, What is going on? I asked her. And she talked to me and told me, but she didn't push me. Okay. She just told me, This is the Lord and all this stuff. I said, What if I wanna go up there?

She goes, I'll go with you. And then she went up there. But then all these people came. , all these young people came and they got around me, but nothing happened. I just felt good. . So I went home, but I didn't see nothing. And then later on, like the next time I went, I asked those people in the car I said, Okay, what happened? They go, Well, you got a blessing. I told them, I said, You didn't tell me what kind of church it was. You should have told me it was a loud church. I told him, he goes, Well, you don't have to come back unless you want to. I said, Yeah, I think I'll come back one more time. So the next time I came, I went up there and I got the Holy Ghost--- that's speaking in tongues.

I got the Holy Ghost, Erika because I had, like I tell you I've always been a very rebellious child. . Okay. So I was able to put everything on the. altar, I didn't have no more. It felt good. I was able to put stuff that I had no business doing. Okay. Yeah. And then I felt good, so I went home speaking in tongues and they let me in the house and Yolanda says that they thought that this time she's going over.

Yolanda Camarillo: No, it was a Tuesday night and she wasn't speaking English or nothing! Then, and I opened the. And I ran and I told mom, she's going crazy now. She's done gone, she's done going, flipped it. I, Cause she's not even speaking English.

Irma Camarillo: But then I started going to church. Mela--- I didn't tell my, I got baptized, but I did not tell my mother. , because you're supposed to get up baptized when you're older, when you, when you know what you're doing. And Mela went and got baptized and got the Holy Ghost. Mela can't keep her mouth. She went and told my mother. My mother went crazy. She told me I had to leave the. . I could not be her daughter anymore. My mother was serious. She was really, every time I took her like Catholic. So anyway she took me to Father Dave. Well Monsieur Davis, she made him call the Bishop of Texas. At that time he was Bishop Flores. . And told him that if he decided that I wasn't gonna be, that they were gonna excommunicate me, then I was no longer gonna be her daughter and she's gonna have to fig--- I was gonna have to go live at the dorms and just get away. So thank God Father Davis was reasonable. He said, Look at how, Cause I used to dress with, Can you imagine? Think about me, a chubby woman with mini skirt.

Erika Alonso: I like it. I think that's great.

Irma Camarillo: Wait! And and fake eyelashes.

Erika Alonso: I love it.

Irma Camarillo: Wait a minute. And because I could never get my fingernails right, they never grow. Okay? , I had this fake. Fake, you know, paint, you know, and one time I got on the bus --this is a true story-- I got on the bus and I went to give the guy the ticket and my fingernails are falling off, like two or three fingernails falling into his hand. . So I'm telling you, I was a trip. I was a trip. So when Father Dave sees me, my, my face is clean, my dresses of this. . Cause I had to. Stuff on my dresses. , dresses cause they were so short... So I mean, God, it was, I was a trip. Okay. So when he sees me looking so nice and being so nice, not talking, you know, crazy. He tells my mother, he doesn't see nothing wrong with me. So when that the bishop tells him, well, tell me about her or whatever. And he says—Father Davis, I'm looking a lot better and all that.

He tells Father Davis to say, No, I'm not gonna, It's up to Father Davis. Father Davis. No, I'm not gonna excommunicate her. He tells my mom, and you shouldn't say she's not your daughter. This church is open to her. If she ever decides to come back, she can just come back. . So my mother couldn't throw me out, boy, but she wanted to get me out bad , she would get, See my dad and I, we were always like, He would get upset with me, but then he would like realize, hey, she's a lot like me. Let me leave. Let me, you know. Yeah. Take it back. So, so he would take it back. But my mother, she was at the point where she wanted him to get rid of me and my dad would say he tried to talk to her and one day we had to leave the house cuz she was really crazy.

I mean, she was really like mad, like she's gonna kill us or something. So we left. And I left and Mela came with me and then all the kids come with us and we went to Mason Park and we sat there on the hill until we saw it. The sun was coming up and we said, Well, she's gotta go to work. , you know, cuz she would leave for work real early.

I said, She's gotta go to work and my dad's gotta go to work. They won't be there. Maybe by the time they get home they'll be cooler. So we went, but we were walking. This is the truth, Erika,, we saw like a, what do you call a sick sickle? A sick mm-hmm. that you. Yeah. Sickle. Yeah. And it was over my house. Wow. So that it was made out of it was light, right Yolanda? It was like a light golden one, and it was over my house. So that was telling us that everybody in the family was gonna come in, and sure enough, everyone did. Yeah. My mother came in 76. My father came in 86.

Erika Alonso: To the church.

Irma Camarillo: To the church to, Well, let me put it this way, To God, to God, not the church, because the church is you. You know, as long as you do what God, you accept him as your savior, you know--- it's good. You get baptized in Jesus' name. You get the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues. But the main thing is to accept Him as your Savior. , because then you take him, you know, as your savior. . So ever since then, we've, all of us, my mother, she became the best one out of all of us. Because she took all her Catholic upbringing, and she put it in the Lord and she didn't play. Like, you know, I would, I'll tell you about, I always had issues with the light company. God bless them. They took care of me. They gave me promotions. , I was an instructor. They did so much for me, but I was like that ----- I guess it was that. Independent spirit. . But my dad, he went and got his own shop here in Houston because he didn't wanna work for anyone else. . And then the people that he used to work for, they started giving him some of their business. Chuck Davidson now. Yeah. They started giving some of their business, but maybe that's how I, I was, you know, like, so anyway, so I don't know what I was gonna tell you, but anyway. I forgot.

Erika Alonso: Oh, coming to you know, joining the church.

Irma Camarillo: Oh, yeah. Yeah. When I, when we joined, we came to the Lord. Okay. My mother, we, that's why we stayed at Brother Quitos's , because it was all Spanish. And that way my mother could understand it. And then my dad, he could speak English, would go there to embarrass us.

He would go there, You. And he would sit in the back and he would whistle at the women that went up there to sing. And one day I couldn't take it no more cuz he was louder than usual. I mean, I'm talking loud. And the sisters were coming up to sing and he would go, [indistinguishable] and all that kind of stuff like that.

And I got up and I went to the pastor who was in his office getting ready for the sermon and I said, Brother Quitós who is it? It's sister Irma..he opened the door I said, Brother Quitós you're gonna have to do something about my dad. You get the ushers to remove him. He goes, Why sister? I said, Because he's whistling at the sisters. He's, he's drunk. I don't want him like that. He's embarrassing me. He says, sister Irma. This church is for the sick people, just like a hospital. It's not for us. It's for the people that are sick. We're here to help him. And he, I said, You just don't know my dad. My dad. . I said he was raised by a man. I said that they're they're all there was the mind. . That's how they were like the, your mind, all you are is what you do with your mind. That's all. Oh, they believe in education. They're doctors, lawyers, then they believe in that a lot, but that's it. And they like to drink. I'm not talking a little, I'm talking about they like their drink. . So, so I said, You don't under— he says, sister Irma, let me tell you something, Even a rock and the water keeps falling and the rock keeps falling. Sooner or later it'll make a hole. So we'll just keep working with your dad and don't get tired and don't act like that. He, he goes, I'm sure you've seen your father worse than this. And I'm thinking, Of course. So he says, Just they know the people out there know. I said, Okay. And that's why my dad would come and do that. But as he got older, as we were in more of it, he stopped, you know, he's just come and then he got to be, then we went to the English church, which was by our house. . It was like 10 minutes or five minutes from our house. We started going there because we now, my mother was baptized and everything and we started going to that church cuz, you know, and my dad started coming and he became the best friend of the pastors, you know, my dad. And he changed, I mean, he just changed. And when he went back to see his family, they couldn't believe it. Because he wouldn't, I mean everything, he would not stand for that. Some of the stuff they did, he would not, he would tell em. Like you couldn't be two-faced to him cuz he'd tell you, What are you talking about? I know this about you. , you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah. So he wasn't like that anymore. And they were shocked.

Erika Alonso: He changed.

Irma Camarillo: He changed because you know, the spirit of God gives you temperance and he had temperance. You know, because before, like my cousin Beto, he would come to Houston. Oh my God, he was scared of my dad. . He would come and then, you know, my dad would get loud and I say, I said, Why do you do that? Don't do that. I said, Stop that right now, Poppy. Stop it. I'm giving you your food. I don't wanna hear all that. And Beto, one time he got me and he took me to the other room and he says, . Irma, don't do that to your dad.

I said, Why? He says, I've seen him hit people in the face for less than that I say, He's not gonna hit me. I'm a woman. I've seen him Irma. I said, I said, But I don't know where you're from, but you got it wrong. . I said, My dad's not like that. . , you know, because they knew my old dad. But he wasn't like that anymore. Because God gives you temperance. . So anyway, so that's why I'm saying I'm glad that we came to Houston because I could be myself. I wouldn't have to be somebody else's philosophy cuz my grandpa, boy, he get you in that, open that philosophy, Stick it in, stick it in you. , you know, and, but here my dad let us, well he wanted us to be a certain way, but he would more or less let us be us. Ourselves. , you know, And he believed, he believed in women. There are like women's power and all that. , we had it at our home. We didn't have to go and look for it. That's how he believed. So when I meet, when I would meet these guys, I don't know where they were coming from because that's not how I grew up.

I guess my dad, when he had girls, I, I guess he decided that he's not gonna have us all like this cuz we weren't. , He let us speak our minds and whatever we decided he, you have, you're gonna do this, Tell me why you're doing this. , you know, and you could, you could talk it out with him.

You know, like one time I wanted to be a, a socialist, cause my grandfather, my grandfather and my my grandmother in Mexico, there were socialists. . My dad did not believe in that. , he believe in voting. He believe in stating your, your what you want. He, he was a, he voted ever since I knew him and when they had to pay poll tax poll. You know what I'm saying?

Erika Alonso: Poll taxes.

Irma Camarillo: Yeah. He would go and pay them and he would not complain or nothing. He believed in this. So when I wanted to be a socialist cuz of my grandfather, Okay. I was in college and I wanted to be a socialist. And don't ask me how he found me, but he found me and I was coming out of that meeting, but the man who was a professor that was teaching us to be a meeting, okay?

Teaching us to be socialists, he switched it around and he was talking about communism. He was trying to take us into communism. . And I knew that wasn't right. You know, so we, I came out the meeting all confused and there's my dad waiting for me right outside. How did he know? But he was right there waiting for me and he's, and I was, I said, What are you doing here, dad?

He says, I don't want you to get involved in that. And I, and I said, But it's ...he goes, I know what they're doing. They're telling you something when you get in there, they're gonna come up with communism. You're not gonna, I got away from that. You're not. And he started crying. Because he, Cause I was still giving him all kinds of arguments, but I knew I wasn't wanted to be a communist. But if I'm not a socialist, I might. But he started crying and that's when I knew that he, that was something he could not abide with. . So that was a lot of reasons why I'm glad I'm in Houston. , you know? . So I can see where people wanna think. So, I mean, like my daughter Dolores, I love the way she thinks--- it's not like I think.

But I can't... go on her like that because she's my daughter. Like, she says, Mom, you taught me that. You know? Like I told her, I tell her, Oh yeah, like I talk about the people with the guns. I said, I said, Well, Dolores, you know, guns, guns are not killing people. The people are killing the people , she goes, Mom, you always said don't have a gun in the house, Dad and you always said that. So just giving me back my words , you know what I'm saying?

And so I can't judge her. You know what , you know, because I taught her. That's probably how my dad was doing us. He would see us and some of us would be like him.

Erika Alonso: Yeah. But all of you would be independent.

Irma Camarillo: Yes. He really believed in that a lot a lot. He really did. And he didn't believe that our husbands shouldn't let us be ourselves. And those husbands that did not, he did not like 'em for nothing. He says they're they're stifling my daughters. He would, he would say that. He liked us to be independent and he wanted us to be independent with our husbands.

Alonso, Erika

Camarillo-Napierkowski, Irma

Houston, Texas